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#343382 - 2010-03-11 17:58:44 What does this mean?
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27096
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
"I was shown that the judgments of God would NOT come DIRECTLY out from the Lord upon the wicked but in this way.: They place themselves beyond His protection... He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them." Manuscripts Releases, Vol.14,3.1
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#343388 - 2010-03-11 18:38:01 Re: What does this mean? [Re: Woody]
RLH Online   content
Mr. Murphy's daddy


Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 19009
Loc: North Carolina
It means that when you go to the Lil' General store, and steal a piece of candy, or a bottle of wine. If the LORD withdraws his spirit from you, then you're on your own. You may come out and there just happen to be a cop sitting there in his car, and the lady comes running out behind you screaming: STOP!! THIEF!! STOP!! STOP!!

It has nothing to do with how the wicked will be destroyed at the end of time, like some would have you believe. Context is everything.

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#343478 - 2010-03-12 00:24:56 Re: What does this mean? [Re: RLH]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook
It means that when you go to the Lil' General store, and steal a piece of candy, or a bottle of wine. If the LORD withdraws his spirit from you, then you're on your own. You may come out and there just happen to be a cop sitting there in his car, and the lady comes running out behind you screaming: STOP!! THIEF!! STOP!! STOP!!

It has nothing to do with how the wicked will be destroyed at the end of time, like some would have you believe. Context is everything.


The cop sitting there and busting you is a blessing. Getting away with breaking God's law is a curse. It hardens you.

The brazenness with which people take money from their neighbors (via the government) is a case in point. They've gotten away with it for so long, they actually believe they are entitled to it. A friend of mine works at the post office and has to deal with some pretty ugly people if their welfare or disability checks are a day late. "Hey, where's my paycheck?" Some of them threaten him, as if he had any control over it.

It gets ugly.

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#343480 - 2010-03-12 00:31:50 Re: What does this mean? [Re: karl]
RLH Online   content
Mr. Murphy's daddy


Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 19009
Loc: North Carolina
Amazing.

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#343885 - 2010-03-13 05:16:08 Re: What does this mean? [Re: Woody]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: Woody
Quote:
"I was shown that the judgments of God would NOT come DIRECTLY out from the Lord upon the wicked but in this way.: They place themselves beyond His protection... He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them." Manuscripts Releases, Vol.14,3.1


It seems that God uses both direct command of His loyal angels and permissive destruction by the rebel forces.


Originally Posted By: egw
God's judgments were awakened against Jericho. It was a stronghold. But the Captain of the Lord's host Himself came from heaven to lead the armies of heaven in an attack upon the city. Angels of God laid hold of the massive walls and brought them to the ground.--3T 264 (1873). {LDE 243.1}

Under God the angels are all-powerful. On one occasion, in obedience to the command of Christ, they slew of the Assyrian army in one night one hundred and eighty-five thousand men.--DA 700 (1898). {LDE 243.2}

The same angel who had come from the royal courts to rescue Peter had been the messenger of wrath and judgment to Herod. The angel smote Peter to arouse him from slumber. It was with a different stroke that he smote the wicked king, laying low his pride and bringing upon him the punishment of the Almighty. Herod died in great agony of mind and body, under the retributive judgment of God.--AA 152 (1911). {LDE 243.3}

A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his
244
sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere.--GC 614 (1911). {LDE 243.4}

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#343931 - 2010-03-13 12:07:42 Re: What does this mean? [Re: karl]
Musicman1228 Offline


Registered: 2009-06-19
Posts: 1858
Loc: CA
If God found it necessary under His Law to execute His own Son as a penalty for our disobedience then why would anyone think that He would not execute people under His Law who willingly retain the sin for which He executed His own Son? I don't get it when people say that God would use Satan to accomplish the task for which God Himself is responsible. Sin will be eradicated from the universe. Any being that has decided to keep sin inside them having been given ample opportunity to get rid of it will be left in sin at the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet. When God destroys sin as the final act love (as given in the prophecies) those with sin still in them will be destroyed along with their sin.

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#343935 - 2010-03-13 12:19:18 Re: What does this mean? [Re: Musicman1228]
RLH Online   content
Mr. Murphy's daddy


Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 19009
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Musicman
Sin will be eradicated from the universe. Any being that has decided to keep sin inside them having been given ample opportunity to get rid of it will be left in sin ....... When God destroys sin as the final act love (as given in the prophecies) those with sin still in them will be destroyed along with their sin.


Amen Musicman!


Mark this day on your calendar.

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#343942 - 2010-03-13 13:01:08 Re: What does this mean? [Re: RLH]
Archie777 Offline
I have already made 100 posts, seems iike I just started

Registered: 2010-03-12
Posts: 176
"God will use His enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth of God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. {LDE 242.3}

So, the question is - Since there are times when God uses evil men and evil angels as instruments to punish and destroy sinners, who is actually responsible for their punishment and destruction?

It is right or accurate to say evil men and evil angels are guilty and God is innocent? Are they any more accountable than holy men and holy angels when they obey God's command to punish and destroy sinners? Was Moses, for example, guilty of sinning when he obeyed God and stoned sinners to death?

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#343944 - 2010-03-13 13:08:17 Re: What does this mean? [Re: Musicman1228]
Robert Offline


Registered: 2001-07-14
Posts: 21388
Loc: Columbia, SC
Originally Posted By: Musicman1228
If God found it necessary under His Law to execute His own Son as a penalty for our disobedience then why would anyone think that He would not execute people under His Law who willingly retain the sin for which He executed His own Son?


1] First of all you can't transfer guilt. The law demands that the sinner dies. Jesus was never a sinner, therefore His death instead of yours is unethical. You need to study the gospel.

2] God didn't execute Jesus. Jesus was certainly not forced to die. In fact Jesus never died. Even EGW states, "Deity did not sink and die...humanity died." Jesus took us into Himself at the incarnation. I've got loads of quotes from EGW to prove it...loads!

3] God abandoned Christ, who had become sin as the son of man. When God abandoned Christ trouble came Christ's way, but not from God.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified"

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#343964 - 2010-03-13 13:47:31 Re: What does this mean? [Re: Robert]
Archie777 Offline
I have already made 100 posts, seems iike I just started

Registered: 2010-03-12
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: Robert
1] First of all you can't transfer guilt. The law demands that the sinner dies. Jesus was never a sinner, therefore His death instead of yours is unethical.

Is there a difference between transferring sin and transferring guilt? Does God divorce sin and guilt and treat them separately? "In dying upon the cross, He transferred the guilt from the person of the transgressor to that of the divine Substitute through faith in Him as his personal Redeemer." {TDG 236.2} Does this insight seem unethical to you? Consider also the following insights:

Quote:
Important truths concerning the atonement were taught the people by this yearly service. In the sin offerings presented during the year, a substitute had been accepted in the sinner's stead; but the blood of the victim had not made full atonement for the sin. It had only provided a means by which the sin was transferred to the sanctuary. By the offering of blood, the sinner acknowledged the authority of the law, confessed the guilt of his transgression, and expressed his faith in Him who was to take away the sin of the world; but he was not entirely released from the condemnation of the law. On the Day of Atonement the high priest, having taken an offering for the congregation, went into the most holy place with the blood and sprinkled it upon the mercy seat, above the tables of the law. Thus the claims of the law, which demanded the life of the sinner, were satisfied. Then in his character of mediator the priest took the sins upon himself, and, leaving the sanctuary, he bore with him the burden of Israel's guilt. At the door of the tabernacle he laid his hands upon the head of the scapegoat and confessed over him "all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat." And as the goat bearing these sins was sent away, they were, with him, regarded as forever separated from the people. Such was the service performed "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things." Hebrews 8:5. {PP 355.5}

The ministration of the earthly sanctuary consisted of two divisions; the priests ministered daily in the holy place, while once a year the high priest performed a special work of atonement in the most holy, for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Day by day the repentant sinner brought his offering to the door of the tabernacle and, placing his hand upon the victim's head, confessed his sins, thus in figure transferring them from himself to the innocent sacrifice. The animal was then slain. "Without shedding of blood," says the apostle, there is no remission of sin. "The life of the flesh is in the blood." Leviticus 17:11. The broken law of God demanded the life of the transgressor. The blood, representing the forfeited life of the sinner, whose guilt the victim bore, was carried by the priest into the holy place and sprinkled before the veil, behind which was the ark containing the law that the sinner had transgressed. By this ceremony the sin was, through the blood, transferred in figure to the sanctuary. In some cases the blood was not taken into the holy place; but the flesh was then to be eaten by the priest, as Moses directed the sons of Aaron, saying: "God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation." Leviticus 10:17. Both ceremonies alike symbolized the transfer of the sin from the penitent to the sanctuary. {GC 418.1}

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