Can we as a body agree to stop proclaiming what others believe. I would like to see us stop saying these words "You believe ..." and whatever follows.

People ... I appeal to you to quote what others believe. But DO NOT tell others what they believe.

I am really tired of reading what "I" believe when it is clearly NOT what I believe. And when I approach the offender or the moderator ... it is just laughed at.

What is the Christian thing to do when you mis-state what someone believes and they ask you to delete the misrepresentation? Would it not be right to apologize and to delete the incorrect statement when approached?

Well ... anyway ... this is my suggestion to make this a better place. A much better place in my view.

When this is agreed upon ... I would be very happy to abide by it. Until then ... back to the same old game.

REDWOOD

this is a good thought

dgrimm60

Thanks dgrimm. I hope that others will agree also.

It is far better to ask what someone believes or to clarify a person's beliefs ... rather than to loudly (and wrongly) proclaim it.

REDWOOD

THIS IS SO TRUE


dgrimm60

You believe in censorship!



Actually, you're right.

I agree with Redwood. Furthermore, I think he was not treated fairly here.

Rudywoofs is correct.

Thanks all. Appreciate you being behind this idea. Any suggestions as to how to promote it?

Until then ... I am going back to telling people what they believe even though they have repeatedly denied what I am stating.

I would love to not have to return to the same old game here. But I will until something happens. What needs to happen to stop the game?

I've tried doing good and just overlooking it as Admin has suggested. But, the game goes on. Being good has not worked. So, I return to doing as they do. I can only hope that eventually they get as tired of it as I do. We just go around denying what others propose we have stated when we have not stated it. And the denial have to be repeated over and over and over again.

What a waste of time. God must be shedding a tear or two.

I would just like to ask those who believe in legalism ... if they like their words being misrepresented. No. I don't actually mean misrepresented because at some point after I have gone to them in private and in public to corect their wrong statements of what I believe .... it becomes a lie. Because they knowingly persist in stating things that I've told them I don't believe.

When folks ... can we return to addressing the issues instead of telling me I've going to Hell?

so you want people to quit proclaiming what others believe, yet you are addressing those who you claim believe in legalism? Do they say they believe in legalism?

Rise above it.
Do as Jesus would.
Do not return to the ways of the past, but rise to the place where God desires you to be.

Be the glimmer of hope; the shining example.

Or, you could always:

Kind of like that saying, "If you are not part of the solution, than you are part of the problem!"

pk

AUBREY

this is good advice

dgrimm60

PKRAUSE

yes you have a good thought there

dgrimm60

Perhaps you missed my post regarding this.I've spoken out against this for years. But, I have decided to change tactics. I am tired of this type of behaviour and the only possible solution I see for change is ... "If you can't beat them - join them". I don't like this type of bahavior. But I can only hope that if I join them that there will be enough outcry about this behaviour that people will start to see it and hate it.

So ... telling people what they believe is what I will do. Telling people they are lost seems to be the popular theme so I will join them. Yes pk I have decided to be part of the problem instead of the solution. But only because I see no other option at this point. The problem here is not viewed as a problem. My goal is to help others see that it IS a problem.

It is my hope that there will be a truce . I would be the first one to agree to it. ANd that is my prayer.

OLGER

AGAIN you are trying to high jack this thread

dgrimm60

Is it useful, though, to say something like "Based on what you've posted, you seem to believe that... - is that correct?" As you said earlier, Woodie, to ask someone to clarify their belief, rather than to assume you know what it is. Drawing others out, rather than beating them down, is IMO the purpose of a discussion... and this used to be a discussion forum, not a war zone. I hope it can be again.

BRAVUS

YES I AGREE WITH YOU

dgrim60

i tried to start a support group on the 12-step subforum but it quickly became a place where one would be told how to deal with the problem, instead of allowing the abused to identify the problem and work out their own solutions.

so i propose an off-site support group where we can identify the problem and learn "mature" :), Christlike responses to the abusers.

one thing that the we-will-identify-and-tell-you-how-to-deal-with-the-problem contributors were correct in is that abusers will not change, nor can we make them change.

but we dont have to sink to their level and become like them. :)

It helps when people will clarify their view.

And also answer when people point out inconsistencies, that that also be clarified, then we would avoid this "I am being misrepresented charge".

I myself have been accused of being a legalist, but despite many requests to show how the individual has come to that conclusion, there is nothing but silence.

Personally, I have no problem if someone says "you are a legalist because of this...".

But when people just keep saying:

"You are a legalist."
"You are a legalist."
"You are a legalist."

With no discussion or rationale for the accusation, then it can never be addressed and to be honest is quite boring at best.

I would personally love those that often wave that accusation around to start a thread and explain their rationale.

But sadly I suspect it is little more than "accusation" for arguments sake as the same individuals always seem to be in the eye of the storm...


My suggestion on this forum, would be that for those that do not believe obedience is a necessity in the plan of salvation, leave those alone that do, and let them discuss the issues in peace.

Some of us here do believe in a "victorious" Christian walk.

And we want to discuss it.

But every thread where this is broached is usually swamped in either:

"You are a legalist."

Or:

"Paul was not inspired."

Or:

"You only need the words of..."

Keeping any topic on track seems an impossibility...

And most just end up in a debate, because a few will not respect others beliefs, and try to drown out every discussion with the same sad, weary charges...

Let those that want to discuss these things discuss them in peace...

And try to contribute something positive, instead of constant negativity.

That would be my suggestion.


Mark...

yes, mark. rather hard to see it in ourselves, isnt it? :)

I second that dgrimm.

pk

It would appear so Teresa...

As the posts attacking certain moderators would indicate.

The term they or them is a shotgun blast that covers much ground. As I recall, as Christians we abide by something Christlike, irregardless of whether they or them are following that advice.

"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
“ Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed."
1 Peter 2:21-24 NKJV

This is posted for whoever believes this Word can be fulfilled in their lives, by the Person Who asks for its' fulfillment. For those who believe it to be true, that Jesus would not ask of us anything He is not willing and able to bring to pass, I feel safe in your presence, whether you are a legalist, democrat, communist, Muslim, or Christian.

Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]--Ephesians 3:20 AMP Parenthesis brackets theirs LHC
Blessings!

I was going to third it but then realized I had already seconded it.

REDWOOD

if YOU want to Third it that is ok with me

hahahahaha hehehehehehe hohohohohoho

dgrimm60

thank you for sharing that. :)

Excuse me for jumping in here. I am a little frustrated by the difficulty in getting into some areas of this forum. I understand that some areas are only for subscribers, but are they all marked -- or are some unmarked areas also just for subscribers?

I tried to get into the "Theology" section, and even after waiting a full two minutes, it just would not go.

I noted that the bottom left of my computer showed it to be hung up on an advertisement.

If a person is a subscriber, are the ads removed and it goes faster?

There are a lot of avatars for topics. Granted they are pretty. But if they slow the forum, I can get along without them.

If the forum is just too big, maybe it should be broken up into sections so that a person could go to the section of interest and move around faster.

Well, as Ole says to Olga: "I tank I say too much already!"

There must have been a server issue.. we do run out of engine at times. We should go to a completed dediciated server, but that will be another $80 or so per month...

With some companies you can get a dedicated server for less than $80.00 per month.

I don't know what hosting plan you are using. I use GoDaddy (www.godaddy.com) for my website which has small demands. However, GoDaddy does offer dedicated servers for large websites. These cost from $63.99 to $347.92 per month. There are a number of options.

I like GoDaddy as service is excellent. You always get a live person on free support, and they are always cordial and helpful. Just a thought.

I tried again to get into "Theological Talk" (60 viewing) and was not able to get in. Lower left of my screen said "transferring data from cs6a.clearspring.com.

I paid through PayPal for a subscription. Still could not get in. May have been too soon. I will try again tomorrow. Will a paid subscription be free of ads? Will it be faster?

Would it help with a forum this large to break it up into segments -- maybe on different websites. My interest in the forum is rather focused, and I would probably use just one segment. With a forum this large, it is easy for your contribution to get lost in the maze of detail.

Every forum has a certain feel. I have used several forums. One forum collected complainers and ex-sdas. At every presentation of Adventist truth there was always immediate objection, and rarely a reasoned evaluation of what was said.

Another forum, more Adventist oriented, There were two who gave good responses, but never disagreed with me and had no suggestions.

A non-SDA forum had excellent discussions, but it became tiring to have to continually defend SDA belief.

Several forums are "dead in the water" to the point that I was the only one posting.

I suspect that each forum attracts certain persons. By subscribing, I will have a chance to see how I like this forum. there is certainly a wide range of interests here.

So Sorry! I finally figured out that to access a subject, it is not enough to just click in the box, even though the color changes. You have to mouse over the topic to bring up the underline, then click.

If you click on the topic in the left hand box you get the menu for that topic. If you click on the topic in the right hand box, you get the specific (latest) thread on that topic.
-----------------------
Another suggestion: Separater bars are blue with some graphics. So far so good! However, they often contain important information, like the date of the post. With the blue color and the graphics, it is hard to read the information.

You can change the color scheme of the forum by going to "My Stuff" at the top and clicking on "Edit Preferences"...

Thanks Pam. I chose ubbthreads. much clearer at least to me.

I do not know why "transferring data from cs6a.clearspring.com" showed up at all. As far as I know we have no affiliation with them.

The next move will more than likely be to "cloud" hosting, that is where you can adjust the processors up and down as needed as well as hard drive space. I dread the transfer work involved, esp he mysql database. Here is a sample of cloud http://order.1and1.com/xml/order/CloudDynamicServer

The minimum hard drive space is fine, bout would want 4 gigs of ram and 4 processors, right now we have up to 4 gigs available and 2 processors. That can be adjusted at any time, so it may be the last stop and resting place of the various club adventist ministries.

Amazon has a cloud as well, and an advantage there is they mirror everything around the world so it would be just as quick in Australia, England, China as it is in the USA.

STAN

THIS would be nice

dgrimm60

Sounds great Stan. Will probably cost you more. Maybe you might need to increase what we contribute per month?

pk

It would be a good idea to offer different rates of contribution people can send in Stan.

Mark :-)

I do not have the ability to increases anyones, but have change it for new folks to $5 per month. not a huge amount.

The amount of new subs we get often is about the same amount as those who cancel :)

That would be a good thing, I just HATE asking for money.

If you could put that in our My Stuff section, people could change it there Stan.