Ezekiel 28:14

This is part of a prophecy/lament against the King of Tyre that starts in chapter 26 and the preamble in 28:2 and 28:12 repeats that the object of Ezekiel's message was the King of Tyre. While clearly directed at him,the mixed allusions seem a blend of imagery bringing to mind, among other things, a fall from perfection, glory and favor like either Adam and/or Lucifer. Not entire free of ambiguity, but I think it suffices for the context of this discussion. For the sake of discussion I think it reasonable to assume that Lucifer was one of the guardian cherubs before being cast out of heaven. I don't think there is any dispute that he was a high order of heavenly being, higher than the angels that he took out of heaven with him.

As for the point of discussion of whether cherubim and angels are the same thing, does anyone have a reference that says they are actually the same thing or that Satan was also identified as being an angel?

I would note that the closest text of which I am aware is 2 Corinthians 11:14 that says that Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. But that isn't saying he is an angel. It just says he can deceive us by looking like an angel, just as he might deceive us by appearing to us as our dead grandmother.

There are also a number of references that I recall about Satan and his angels. This would seem to suggest a distinction between him and them, at least to a degree, as being somewhat different. But how different and in what way? This could be a distinction between different types or variations of the same kind or a distinction between different very dissimilar things. Was Lucifer simply an angel of higher rank or status, or was he a higher order and different type of heavenly being distinct and apart from other heavenly beings?

Tom

I think that most people use "angel" as more of a general reference to heavenly beings, regardless of "species" or rank. When you think about it, "angel" just means "messenger", so does the word really describe a particular kind of being or is it just used for all heavenly messengers, Satan and Gabriel alike?

I agree. Any one of these extraterrestrial beings could function as a Messenger, or Angel, to us. Scripture describes several different types of these beings. God directs them to travel through time and/or space to deliver important messages to us poor, ignorant human beings.

The term 'wings' is used because it denote travel through space, birds have wings, travel through space of the planet. So what better way to depict travel than to use the word wings, readers or hearers would instantly understand what was happening. Do 'winged' beings really exist? How fast do they need to beat to get from the moon to earth in a second or a minute or whatever? If heaven is in the next dimension where they cross back and forth instantly, why need 'wings'? 'Wings' would be a slow form of transportation! Symbolic is my answer, like the chariot with wheels of fire. Bible is very symbolic and the words used were understood by the people who heard them or read them, symbols helped the understanding. I doubt that we today are to transport our mind back to those days and think that yes, there really is winged beings and chariots with wheels of fire, etc.

Yes, I think that's the way I tend to see it too. It does raise an interesting thought of what new spiritual symbolism would hit home for this generation. Eugene Peterson has taken some of the Biblical metaphors in his paraphrase and translated them to modern equivalents. For example, how many of us can really identify with the idea of being like straying sheep? How many of us are shepherds? Even maybe know a shepherd? Or even been close to a sheep? What might work better for the modern urban dweller with no knowledge of ancient agrarian culture?

The idea is to take something common and familiar to help us better understand the sacred. Each time we see the common item we are reminded of the sacred.

It's interesting how we tend to make the symbol sacred to the point it's original purpose and meaning is lost, putting us further away from the sacred to which it was intended to bring us closer. But we cling to the sacred symbol as if to tamper with it is to somehow profane the sacred that it symbolizes. Sometimes a fresh symbol might help get us back on track.

Coming at this from a different direction, maybe the reason heavenly beings are represented as having wings is that we might be reminded of them whenever we see a winged creature. They are everywhere. I think I have a lot of angels in my back yard. I can hear them singing. They outnumber the snakes in the grass.

Regarding your last paragraph, I think you meant this in a serious manner, but couldn't help but laugh...snakes in the grass...pun intended?

I agree. The "wings" of angels wouldn't help them fly the vast, unimaginable distances they must travel between heaven and earth. But for the people of ancient times who knew nothing about those distances, the wings were an appropriate symbol of travel. After all they saw how birds flew with flapping wings. They could not have understood any other form of travel through space.

However, we know that God and the angels are in a different dimension, and that there are other possible ways of travel through space besides bird-like wings. How useful would flapping wings be for traveling faster than the speed of light? Obviously none at all. If anything, they would be a hinderance.

Also in regards to your last paragraph... Love this!!! I'd like to put it on cards or bookmarks to pass out to people. 10pts. TW it's a wonderful point of view.

I wonder if any of the Cherubim went over to the Dark Side.