Hello everyone, I have a huge collection of Adventist books for sale. I have them listed on Craigslist, heres the link http://greenbay.craigslist.org/bks/1143224669.html

Are you giving up on Ellen White?

Contact Cedar Lake Academy or LNF Books and either one might take all of them.

HEY TRUTH SEEKER

ANY reason you selling the books????


dgrimm60

TS, Do you have the 3-volume set of the history of the SDA church?

To Redwood & dgrimm60.....I was a second generation Adventist, until a year ago, when by the leading of my Creator, I was lead to do a thorough study of EG White & some of the unique SDA doctrine. This all came about at the same time that I had just ordered a dozen copies of Last day events by EGW & was in the process of giving them out to friends and family. My heavenly Father had a different plan & I was lead to the study I just mentioned. I spent 2 months studying every resource available & ended with a 20 page study guide that I have shared with at least 800 people (Via email and 100 copies I had made in a booklet form. Because of my findings, I had no other choice but to remove my membership from the SDA church. That is why I am selling these books. If anyone here wants a copy of my study, just send me an email & I would be happy to share it with anyone interested. jwjgbw@yahoo.com Take care & God bless, John. Remember what God's holy word tells us.....2nd Timothy 2:15....Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So, TS, Do you have the 3-volume set of the history of the SDA church?

(It just so happens that my recent study of the book, "Last Day Events" has increased my appreciation for her writings, her messages to the Remnant, and increased my faith in God's leading through the upcoming difficult times ahead)

I'm sorry you drew your conclusions, but if it was an honest study, I respect that. I am thanking God for the ones I have arrived at.

Thanks, TS, but I have those books already, some in multiple copies.

Would you care to share with us what it was that you found which caused you to ask to have your membership removed?

You want to make sure that it is God who is guiding you in this decision, of course, and I can't see any reason why he would lead us to get out of the church. What is the reason you believe He wants you out of it?

We will all be praying that you're letting God lead in your life in this decision as well as in all others.

Keyguy, I dont have that set. Because of limited space I cannot post a 20 page study here. But I can offer this study again to anyone interested. I will post a brief part of it.....It has to do with Revelation 20:1-3, the 1000 year time period and the location where satan will be bound to. After a thorough study on the word abussos (bottomless pit), I have found that there is no way you can interpret that word as "The Earth" In the 27 Fundamental Doctrines Book,(copyright 1988) of the Seventh-day Adventist church, on page 366, the writers imply that the term "bottomless pit" that John used in Revelation 20:1,3, describes the condition of the earth at that time, thus saying.... the earth is the "bottomless pit". They also claim that "the earth is a scene of utter desolation" void of man, and will remain that way for a thousand years. This is not an accurate interpretation of Scripture I decided to go to "The Great Controversy" by E.G. White and see what she had to say about the earth at this period in time, and there, is where we found something completely unacceptable, a deliberate and shameful deletion from God's Holy Word! Leaving out, key words of verses, that she's claiming to be quoting. It is obvious she was changing context, to align with SDA Doctrine. To evaluate this deletion for yourself, find a copy of "The Great Controversy", go to the 15th paragraph, of the chapter called "The Earth in Ruins" or "Desolation Of The Earth", depending on which copy you have, and compare her quotes on Isaiah 24: verses 1,3,5,6. She was using a King James Version of the Bible, and you should carefully compare each verse, using that same version of the Bible. You will find that she quoted verses 1&3 word for word, but when she got to verses 5&6, she left out key words, which clearly disprove the SDA belief of an earth de-void of all men at Christs Second Coming....as the end of verse 6 clearly says! "and few men left". There is absolutely no excuse for her deleting these words!

I can understand not having utter faith in EGW but believing in her doesn't make or break an Adventist. There are many Adventists who don't believe everything Ellen wrote. Why should that cause you to leave?

Good post. I have recently started reading both Last Day Events and Maranatha! WOW what timely messages for the end times! How thankful I am that God through His Holy Spirit has blessed us with such messages straight from the Throne Room of heaven!

Praise God!

And also - a praise for this thread and those who do not accept Ellen White - giving away those valuable resources to those who would genuinely appreciate and study them!

God is good - ALL the time!


in Christ,

Bob

Let me make a few statements that I belive to be true.

#1 There is no SDA that follows everything that Ellen White says to do.

#2 No SDA really understands what she meant about everything she wrote about.

#3 Most SDAs don't believe in everything she ever said. For one thing ... we probably don't really understand it.

#4 Her purpose was to point us to scripture. If she doesn't do that for you ... then no sweat. Just go to scripture anyways.

#5 Let me offer you some advice ... don't be caught up in trying to prove her wrong or proving her right. It really doesn't matter. What matters is God's Word.

And like Amelia said ... believing in her or not believing in her every word should not make or break your membership in the church.

#1 Agreed. But there is no SDA that follows everything that the Bible says to do... so what's your point?
#2 Agreed. See #1
#3 Agreed. See #1
#4 Agreed
#5 If you believe Mrs. White was a prophet like Isaiah, Daniel, Paul, John, Moses.. Then she presented God's Word, too. So, then it DOES matter.

Thanks Bob and TS! I too have total faith in the Spirit of Prophecy and am astounded and blessed as I reread Maranatha. I'm taking notes on it and have been working on them for over a year. Every Adventist should prayfully read and study this book. Indeed, this goes for all her books. What a marvelous blessing!!!!!

Suzanne

I just want to make it clear to everyone at this forum that I dont have any bad feelings towards my local SDA church or EGW , but I will say that because of the thorough study I did on EGW & the SDA church that I no longer believe that EGW was a true prophet nor did I ever believe that the general conference was infallible. Ellen White's statement, "When the judgement of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has upon earth, is exercised, private independence and private judgement must not be maintained, but must be surrendered." (Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 3, p.492), really began to bother me. How is this claim of denominational infallibility any different from similar papal claims against which Adventists are so vocal? Is not the Holy Spirit the highest authority that God has upon earth, whose duty it is to convict individual hearts and minds that are open to Him? I realized that based on my Spirit lead convictions I could not surrender my private judgement to earthly men, so my only option was to leave the church. Once again if anyone wants to read my full study & discern it for themselves, I would be happy to send it via email.

I agree with you on this quote. Either I understand her correctly and accept it. Or I understand it incorrectly and thus reject the message. But either way ... you don't have to accept all of Ellen White to be an SDA.

Your quote and your conclusions have been taken out of context.
As for the papacy, the 'universal' (Catholic) church is governed by one man having an agenda of speaking and acting against God's will for money, power and other motives.

As for the General Conference, Mrs White was specifically contrasting the 'independent' ideas and judgment of one man against the decisions and guidance of a group of Godly people, dedicated to following God's word and will.

If you take the words of Christ in Matthew as a literal statement ("you have the keys to the Kingdom and what you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven", etc), then you have to conclude that God has a chosen people, and specifically for these last days. If God can set up and take down leaders of nations, then He can control the leadership of the Remnant.

Mrs. White didn't say they were (are) infallible. The apostles and all the prophets weren't infallible, either, but who will say they weren't chosen by God to fulfill a mission? I have issues with some local conferences, but the General Conference leadership is the cream of the crop and the remnant WILL push on through to the end. I believe the remnant will be led by the GC leadership. Mrs. White said the church will 'appear' to fail, but it won't. I can accept that.

What you say is true, but what about people who say they believe she was a false prophet? If she was a false prophet, who inspired her? Would you want to be a member of a church that was co-founded and led largely by a person who was inspired by Satan, as some believe?

She herself said that she was either inspired by God or inspired by His enemy. I talk to people frequently in the various forums who believe she was of the devil. If I believed that, I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with her or with the church she led.

I believe that some who think she was false still want to stay with the SDA church because they haven't really thought through the implications of their view of Ellen White.

Not sure where someone would go to. I doubt they would find a church with more truth. With EGW or without EGW.

I think the problem lies in the perception and need to think that EGW was perfect and without error. If one finds something they disagree with in her ... they tend to want to toss her and the church out the window.

I don't believe this is necessary.

I think you're misunderstanding what Ellen White said. If you read her life's story and everything she said about the church and the GC, it will be plain that she is not claiming the GC is infallible. There were plenty of mistakes made, and she writes about them. She never claimed infallibility for herself or for the church or the GC.

Good points brought up. The church organization is so intertwined with Mrs White's writings and instructions for the last day Remnant that you realistically cannot accept one without the other.

If I am wrong, how CAN one separate the Remnant church from the end time prophet?

And why should we want to...If we are who we think we are?

Yet, many do. They must have some reason.

Hello :-)

Question for the op.

You say that you do not accept the position of Ellen White on the Abyss.

So...


Where do you think the Abyss is and what do you think the Abyss is?



Mark

The real literal abyss, also outer darkness, is anywhere outside of time and space. Sheol, the pit, the grave, and the wilderness all represent the abyss or outer darkness. The bottomless pit means no resurrection, for a long time anyway. I have noticed that sister White refers to the way of the world as the abyss. Her visions teach that we only have one way to the holy city. They teach that we must get off the path we are on, up the winding ever narrowing road up the side of the mountain with the abyss to one side, and get on the straight and narrow path, following Jesus to the holy city, which we can see in the distance.

Traveling the winding, ever narrowing road, on which we cannot see Jesus or the holy city, is following Moses. Traveling the straight and narrow path is following Jesus. There is a big difference, but the abyss of this world awaits all who fall off either.

The word "deep" translates to the Greek word "abussos" (Strongs #12), which is the same word as "bottomless pit" in Rev.20, no where in this definition of "abussos" is the surface of the earth mentioned! Jesus had also sent other fallen angels there, to be bound until the judgement of the great day. (Jude 6; 2nd Peter 2:4). At the 5th angel sounding in Rev.9:1-11, this bottomless pit is opened and something evil is released. Abussos: In classical Greek the word is always an adjective, and is used (1) literally, "very deep," "bottomless"; (2) figuratively, "unfathomable," "boundless." "Abyss" does not occur in the King James Version, but the Revised Version so transliterates abussos in each case. The King James Version renders the Greek by "the deep" in two passages (Luke 8:31; Rom.10:7). In Revelation the King James Version renders by "the bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:1,2,11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1,3). In the Septuagint abussos is the rendering of the Hebrew word tehom. According to primitive Semitic cosmogony, the earth was supposed to rest on a vast body of water which was the source of all springs of waters and rivers (Gen. 1:2; Deut. 8:7; Psa. 24:2; 136:6) This subterranean ocean is sometimes descibed as "the water under the earth" (Exodus 20:4; Deut 5:8). .
According to Job 41:32 tehom is the home of the leviathan, in which he plows his hoary path of foam. The Septuagint never uses abussos as a rendering of Sheol (Sheol = Hades) and probably tehom never meant the "abode of the dead" which was the ordinary meaning of Sheol. In Psalms 71:20 tehom is used figuratively, and denotes "many and sore troubles" through which the psalmist has passed (compare Jonah 2:5). But in the New Testament the word abussos means the "abode of demons" In Luke 8:31 the King James Version renders "into the deep" (Weymouth and The Twentieth Century New Testament = "into the bottomless pit"). The demons do not wish to be sent to their place of punishment before their destined time. Mark simply says "out of the country" (5:10). In Romans 10:7 the word is equivalent to Hades, the abode of the dead. In Revelation (where the King James Version renders invariably "the bottomless pit") abussos denotes the abode of evil spirits, but not the place of final punishment; it is therefore to be distinguished from the "lake of fire and brimstone" where the beast and the false prophet are, and into which the devil is to be finally cast (Rev. 19:20; 20:10).

Thank you for taking the time to answer. :-)

If you do not mind me politely pointing, I notice you did not answer the question.

What and where do you think the Abyss is?


Mark

I believe that the Abyss is a underworld prison for certain fallen angels and for the souls of the lost. I also believe that demons and Satan are aware of the restriction that is placed upon them in this prison and utterly dread confinement there.(see Luke 8:30-31) I also believe from 1st Peter 3:19-20 that Jesus went there between the time of His Death and Resurrection....19-By which also He went (between the time of His Death and Resurrection) and preached unto the spirits in prison (does not refer to humans, but rather to fallen Angels; humans are never refered to in this particular manner; these were probably the fallen Angels who tried to corrupt the human race by co-habitating with woman [2nd Peter 2:4 ; Jude Vss. 6-7]; these fallen Angels are still locked up in this underworld prison). 20-Which sometime (in times past) were dis-obedient (this was shortly before the flood) when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah (refers to this eruption of fallen Angels with woman taking place at the time of Noah; this was probably a hundred or so years before the flood) while the Ark was a preparing (these fallen Angels were commiting this particular sin while the Ark was being made ready, however long it took; Scripture doesn't say!) wherein few, that is,eight souls were svaed by water. In Revelation 9:1-11 Satan is allowed to release the demons that have been locked up in the bottomless pit that they may go out and torment 4" And it was commanded to them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;but only those men which have not the Seal of God in their foreheads". So in a nut shell I believe that the Abyss is a holding place for demons and the lost souls and will be the final holding prison for Satan for the 1000 year period in Revelation 20, after which the Great White Throne Judgement will occur. As far as where the Abyss is, I would be speculating, but I do think it is accessible from the surface of the earth, but I dont believe it is the surface of the earth. John

Hello John :-)

I have three questions:

1. Is this holding place in existance now in your view?

2. Do you have any scriptural evidence (clear scripture) that suggests such a place exists?

3. What is the function of this place?


God bless,

Mark

Hello Mark: 1- From Scripture it is clear, The Abyss was in existence during the event that happened in Luke 8:31 and it still in existence in Revelation 20:3, so the answer to your question is clearly yes and can be verified in God's Word. 2- To study the Bible thoroughly always remember to look at the original Hebrew and Greek words, the easiest way to do that is by using a concordance. Heres an excellent Bible web site that also has a Vine's Dictionary and a Thayers Lexicon which are two other good study tools to use! http://www.blueletterbible.org Strong's Number G12 matches the Greek ἄβυσσος (abyssos), which occurs 9 times in 9 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Luk 8:31 - Rev 20:3) This should answer your second question http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G12&t=KJV 3- Your third question can only be answered correctly by your Creator, so I feel no need to speculate. Take care and God bless. John.

Luke 8:31 could also be an expression that they thought they would be cast into punishment at that point, have you considered that?

The Abyss is a place of incarceration and certainly a place of punishment. Why are people incarcerated? ...... to be punished for their wrongdoing, to have restrictions placed upon them, and to have their freedom to do what they want, taken away from them. That is exactly what the demons feared in Luke 8:31......Their freedom to be taken away! And thats exactly what will happen to Satan in Revelation 20: 1-3, his freedom will be taken away. Its the same Greek word in both verses....Abussos.

Because of where this thread has went from my original post of "Books for sale" to where it is now. Im am being further impressed to share my Biblical findings of the 1000 year millennial age. I will be posting it here in three seperate posts. And encourage everyone here to critique my findings. I am not claiming any superior knowledge of Scripture, but I will say that my eyes have been opened by studying this subject and that verses in the past that were confusing, have come to life and make perfect sense. Thanks to everyone and God bless, John.

THE MILLENNIAL AGE This is the 1,000 year reign of Jesus and the Saints. (Jesus as the head and us as the rest of the body). During this time satan will be bound totally (Matthew 12:29, Mark 3:27, Revelation 20:1-3), authority will be given to Jesus and the Saints to judge the nations (1 Corinthians 6:2-3, Revelation 20:4-6). With no satanic temptation to draw the people aside, the nations will learn righteousness (Isaiah 11:9, Isa. 54:13, Jeremiah 31:34, Ezekiel 37:1-14, John 6:45, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 Peter 4:6). The nation of Israel will be the chief among nations, illuminating the proper relationship with God. It is obvious from scripture that during this time of the Millennial Kingdom the state of things will be very different from now. The main points from scripture are: Satan is removed from power and locked up (Rev 20:1-3). Jerusalem shall be the earthly center of Christ's Kingdom (Isa. 2:1-4). There shall be universal peace on the earth (Isa. 2:1-4). Nature will be restored to harmony with man (Isa. 11:6-9) There will be no shortage of food for the earth's population (Isa. 25:6-8). There will be universal healing and protection from God (Isa. 32:1-4; Isa. 35:5-10). The knowledge of the Lord will be universal (Isaiah 11:9). The nations will be instructed in the ways of the Lord and the path to righteousness will be made easy for them (Isa. 2:1-4; Isa. 35:5-10). The Bible says," He who dies at the age of a hundred will be thought a mere youth" so our life expectancy will again increase. (Isa. 65:17-25). After this time of personal judgment, death itself will be defeated (Isa.25: 6-8).Any form of evil will not be tolerated (Revelation 2:26-27, Rev.20: 4-6) and all who refuse to learn righteousness will be punished quickly and justly. But those who learn righteousness will experience blessings and prosperity. Very quickly the nations will realize that it is "profitable" to obey the Lord. All who live during this 1000 year era will have learned the lesson of "sin" and "righteousness" for them selves.
At the end of this age there will be a short "season" in which satan will be given free reign to tempt the nations (Rev. 20:7-9). Those who are tempted and drawn aside from good will die for their own sin and be cast into the "lake of fire" with Satan and his angels (Rev. 20:12-15). This is the second death from which there is no hope of release. Those who withstand this temptation will go on to live forever in the new earth (Rev. 21:1). There are those who will say that a man would be a fool to fall into temptation in the very presence of Jesus, but we must remember that is exactly what Adam and Eve did.

The purpose of the Millennial Kingdom is to give every man and woman a personal opportunity to prove their loyalty to Jesus, and to reward the Lord and the saints and to restore creation to its pre-fall condition. In this present evil world we have only a limited choice. Firstly we are all automatically condemned to death because of Adam's sin. Secondly not all come to a knowledge of "the only name under heaven by which we may be saved" (Acts 4:12) - Jesus. But during the Millennial Kingdom this will not be so. Every person will be on trial for their own life, and all will know Jesus (Isa. 11:9, Jer. 31:34). Scripture also gives prophecy of the building of a physical temple.(Hag.2:6-9 NKJV)"For thus says the Lord of hosts: "Once more (it is a little while) I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and the dry land; 'and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations, and I will fill this temple with glory,'says the Lord of hosts. 'The silver is Mine and the gold is Mine,'says the Lord of hosts.'The glory of this latter temple shall be greater than the former,'says the Lord of hosts.'And in this place I will give peace,'says the Lord of host." So it is clear in scripture that there is yet to come a literal physical temple of extreme glory to be built upon the coming of Lord Jesus to rule and reign, as both priest and king, on the throne of David in Jerusalem. These passages cannot be spiritualized. Israel and Judah are not one(Ezek.37:15-28; Jer.3:17,18), there is no peace,(Isa.2:1-4 Mic.4:1-4; Isa.9:6,7) the Lord has not yet shaken heaven and earth for the final time(Matt.24:29; Heb.12:26,27), and the Lord Jesus Christ has not been seen by all nations in His full glory(Matt.25:31,32; Mark 13:24-27). These prophecies remain yet to be fulfilled, and they are literal prophecies for the second coming and the millenial reign of Jesus Christ upon the throne of David over all the earth from Jerusalem. Finally when all God's plans are complete, Jesus will hand creation back to his Father (1 Corinthians 15:28) perfect in every way and thoroughly tried and proven, displaying to the host of heaven and creation, God's sovereignty over all. Then God himself will live with men forever as it was meant to be in the beginning (Revelation 22:1-7). In that age there will be no more death, no more pain or sorrow, no more suffering and no more evil. God himself will live with us, and he will not allow us to be hurt any more.

Key Verses Showing The Millennial Kingdom, On Earth..... Restoration Of The Kingdom-(Acts 1:6-8). Regeneration Of The Earth-(Matt.19:28). Christ Shall Have Dominion From Sea To Sea- (Psa.72:8,9; Zech.9:9,10). That The Land Of Israel Will Be Desolate And Waste, But Will Be Rebuilt, Jerusalem A Praise In The Earth- (Isa.Chapters 61&62). Throne Of David-(Luke 1:32,33; Acts 2:30). Measuring Of The Temple-(Ezek. Ch.40-42). The Kingdom On Earth- (Dan.2:44; 7:13,14,27; Matt.26:29; Luke 22:29,30). -Temple Will Be Built By The Lord-(Zech.6:12-15). We Shall Reign Upon The Earth- (Psalm 149; Rev.5:9,10) Key Verses Showing The Nature Of The Millennium Kingdom..... Peace-(Isa.2:4; 9:4-7; 11:6-9; 32:17,18; 33:5,6; 54:13; 55:12; 60:18; 65:25; 66:12; Ezek.28:26; 34:25,28; Hos.2:18; Mic.4:2,3; Zech.9:10). Joy-(Isa.9:3,4; 12:3-6; 14:7,8; 25:8,9; 30:29; 42:1, 10-12; 52:9; 60:15; 61:7,10; 65:18,19; 66:10-14; Jer.30:18,19;31:13,14; Zeph.3:14-17;Zech. 8:18,19; 10:6,7).Holiness-(Isa.1:26,27; 4:3,4; 29:18-23; 31:6,7; 35:8,9 52:1; 60:21; 61:10; Jer.31:23; Ezek.36:24-31; 37:23,24; 43:7-12; 45:1; Joel 3:21; Zeph.3:11,13; Zech.8:3; 13:1,2; 14:20,21).Glory-(Isa.4:2; 24:23 35:2; 40:5; 60;1-9).Comfort-(Isa.12:1,2; 29:22,23; 30:26; 40:1,2; 49:13; 51:3; 61:3-7; 66:13,14; Jer.31:23-25; Zeph.3-18-20; Zech.9:11,12; Rev. 21:4).Justice-(Isa.9:7; 11:5; 32:16; 42:1-4; 65:21-23; Jer.23:5; 31:23,29, 30).Full Knowledge-(Isa.11:1,2,9; 41:19,20; 54:13; Hab.2:14).Instruction (Isa.2:2,3; 12:3-6; 25:9; 29:17-24; 30:21,22; 32:3,4; 49:10; 52:8; Jer.3:14, 15; 23:1-4; Mic.4:2).The Removal Of The Curse-(Isa.11:6-9; 35:9; 65:25).Sickness Removed-(Isa.33:24; Jer.30:17; Ezek.34:16).Healing Of The Deformed-(Isa.29:17-19; 35:3-6; 61:1,2; Jer.31:8; Mic.4:6,7; Zeph.3: 19).Protection-(Isa.41:8-14; 62:8,9; Jer.32:27; 33:6; Ezek.34:27; Joel 3:16, 17; Amos 9:15; Zech.8:14,15; 9:8; 14:10,11).Freedom From Oppression- (Isa.14:3-6; 42:6,7; 49:8,9; Zech.9:11,12).Reproduction By The Living Peoples-(Jer.30:20; 31:29; Ezek.47:22; Zech.10:18).Labor-(Isa.62:8,9; 65:21-23; Jer.31:5; Ezek.48:18,19).Economic Prosperity-(Isa.4:1; 35:1,2, 7; 30:23-35; 62:8,9; 65:21-23; Jer.31:5,12; Ezek.34:26; 36:29,30; Mic.4:1, 4; Zech.8:11,12; 9:16,17; Joel 2:21-27; Amos 9:13,14).Increase Of Light- (Isa.4:5; 30:26; 60:19,20; Zech.2:5).Unified Language-(Zeph.3:9).Unified Worship-(Isa.45:23; 52:1,7-10; 66:17-23; Zech. 8:23; 13:2; 14:16; Zeph. 3:9; Mal.1:11; Rev.5:9-14).The Manifest Presence Of God-(Ezek.37:27, 28; Zech.2:2,10-13; Rev.21:3).The Fullness Of The Spirit-(Isa.32:13-15; 41:1; 44:3; 59:19,21; 61:1; Ezek.11:19,20; 36:26,27; 37:14; 39:29; Joel 2: 28,29).The Perpetuity Of The Millennial Spirit-(Joel 3:20; Amos 9:15; Ezek 37:26-28; Isa.51:6-8; 55:3,13; 56:5; 60:19,20; 61:8; Jer.32:40; Ezek. 16:60; 43:7-9; Dan.9:24; Hos.2:19-23)

No it couldn't be. 2 Peter 2:4 states the abyss existing from at least early on in creation, fallen angels being confined there until judgment because of their sin in Genesis 6:1-4. And the place is not the earth, but another place.


Shalom and Godspeed

I agree with truthseeker. The Lord shall reign on this earth for one thousand years after He returns. The earth will not be the abyss for the fallen angels. The earth shall be rebuilt and repopulated by those who are left after the Lord's coming with His saints and angels. There will have been much desolation and destruction and death, but some will come through to inherit the kingdom and it shall reign and cover the whole of the earth. This is scriptural. There is alot of scripture stating this truth, many many passages. Seek with an open heart for the truth, throw aside prejudices, and be like the Bereans who tested all things for the truth of scripture. If the millenial kingdom on this earth will not be, then many of God's promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will not happen. One promise is stated in Ezekiel 36:33-38;

33 "Thus says the Lord God: 'On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.
34" The desolate land will be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by.
35 'So they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden;and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.'
36 "Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I , the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it."
37 'Thus says the Lord God: "I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock.
38 "Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I Am the Lord."'"




This promise and prophecy of Ezekiel 36 is a prophecy mainly concerning Israel, as a nation, at the end of the age, at the return of the Lord jesus Christ, the Son of God. Israel is still under the chaJtisement of God at this time, this prophecy is of the end of the age , the beginning of the Lord Jesus' reign in all His power and glory on this earth, the millenial kingdom. Ezekiel 36 has not been fulfilled as of yet. There is alot of scripture showing forth the truth of the millenial kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ on this earth for the thousand years.


Shalom and Godspeed

Well said - that's a real goodie, Woodie. :)

Let me answer it for you with some historical background as well as with some first hand testimony from someone who has been in the White Estate and has a personal knowledge of the facts.

By the turn of the 20th century, the aging Ellen White had amassed a large database of published and unpublished manuscripts. This collection also included many private letters and documents about the great 1888 debate that had destroyed the Battle Creek Empire and sent the General Conference headquarters and the Review in full retreat to Takoma Park, Maryland.

It was Ellen White's wish that after her death these materials, especially those about 1888, would be published for the benefit of the church. But after her death, the General Conference gained control of her documents and refused, over the protest of her son W. C. White, to honor her last will and testament in this regard. In fact, rather than publish this large database and explain to the church Ellen White's involvement and view of the 1888 debate, the General Conference President, A.G, Daniels, instituted a very rigid policy of censorship that was intended to suppress a large portion of Ellen White's writings and keep the controversial history of 1888 hidden from the church.

So from the very beginning of the White Estate the church leaders were suppressing a large portion of Ellen White's writings.

However, by the middle of the 20th century two SDA missionaries by the name of Weiland and Short accused the White Estate of not being forthright and honest about the contents of Ellen Whites large database that was housed in the Takoma Park. They accused the White Estate of suppressing Ellen White's writings about the 1888 debate and embarked on a lifelong campaign to set the record straight about the 1888 debate and make sure that no SDA ever forgot the importance of this critical period in church history that Ellen White has said was so important to understand.

In an attempt to deal with the growing criticism from these two missionaries, the White Estate slowly released more information about the infamous 1888 debate that had captured the fascination of both Weiland and Short. But these two critics were still not satisfied with the less than forthright release of Ellen White's materials from the church, and thus they continued to accuse the White Estate of withholding documents.

They became so persistent in their criticism that by 1971 they goaded LeRoy Froom into writing his epic tome about 1888 called Movement of Destiny. This work was meant to silence their criticism and set the record straight about Ellen White and the 1888 history. But it only made things worse.

However, it was in this official work that Froom acknowledges that Daniels had indeed suppressed Ellen White's 1888 materials. And that as President, he had explained the cover up to the young Froom in the "spring of 1930" and charged him with the responsibility to fully explain the 1888 history when the time was appropriate, that is, after Daniels and many others has passed from the scene.

So there is a published admission about the official cover up of Ellen White's writings on the record for all to see in Movement of Destiny. And thus it is a fact that Daniels hid the record of the 1888 debate in the White Estate and other places, and suppressed thousands of Ellen White's documents in the process.

But the problem became more complex because Froom failed to end the cover-up as Daniels had instructed him. His explanation about 1888 fell flat, and so too did his source material, some of which he dishonestly claimed no longer existed. In fact, although Froom had full access to the White Estate vault, he failed to honestly deal with the large collection of Ellen White's unpublished materials, and virtually ignored thousands of documents that did not fit with his version of things. Thus he refused to tell the truth about this divisive Gospel debate, leaving the original cover-up in place, along side a second one of his own making that made matters even worse.

Not surprisingly, Froom's fraudulent account of 1888 did nothing to stop the growing criticism from Weiland and Short, which by now was gaining traction within the church. Thus Froom's official attempt to resolve the questions about Ellen White and 1888, along with the associated issues about "Righteousness by Faith," solved nothing, even as it generated more debate and confusion within the church.

Consequently, his book set the stage for the divisive Righteousness by Faith debates that consumed and polarized the Adventist Community for the next decade until the church leaders called a halt to the discussion at Glacier View in 1980. This Machiavellian trial is where the church forced all to either support the denominations version of 1888 as well as the Ellen White's theology as promoted by the White Estate, or leave the church. This was the beginning of a large schism that has seriously divided and crippled the SDA Community to this very day.

Although Weiland or Short never gained access into the secretive White Estate vaults, an independent researcher by the name of Tom Norris received permission to go where no critics had ever been allowed. Why? Because Arthur White had recently retired, replaced by Robert W. Olsen as the new CEO of the White Estate. And because Norris had made some stunning discoveries about 1888 in the newly formed General Conference Archives, right down the hall from the White Estate. Moreover, to the surprise of everyone, this authentic account in the Archives was in sharp contrast with what Froom and the White Estate had been promoting about Ellen White and her 1888 theology.

Consequently, Dr. Don Yost, and others, concluded that these new discoveries required further research and verification. Therefore, over the objections of the now retired Arthur White, an independent researcher, for the first time in church history, was given full access into the secretive vaults where Ellen White's material has been so zealous guarded and kept hidden from all but a handful of loyal church workers.

To make a long and exciting story short, Tom Norris discovered that Arthur White had been hiding thousands of documents about the 1888 debate that told a very different story from what Froom and the White Estate had been teaching. In fact, there was a completely different version of church history hiding in the vault that was in sharp contrast to the official 1888 story, and thus the discovery in the Archives was confirmed in the White Estate. Furthermore, some of the actual documents from the 1888 debate that Froom, the White Estate, and the Review had claimed no longer existed, were found residing in the files.

More than that, there were thousands of rare Ellen White documents from the 1888 period that were discovered hidden in the White Estate. Here was a large and stunning collection of 1888 materials that had been deliberately hidden from the church all these years. No wonder Arthur White tried to keep the White Estate off limits to any researchers or scholars. He, and Froom, and others, had been perpetrating a massive fraud on the Adventist Community.

Although this historic discovery took place in 1978-79, just before Glacier View, the leaders were in no mood to admit that such a major scandal was taking place. Besides, the conservatives were in control and such a discovery would destroy their agenda to eliminate the evangelicals and promote their legalistic version of Ellen White's theology that they had so badly misunderstood.

So a third cover-up of Ellen White's 1888 materials took place as the leaders concealed this astonishing discovery in the White Estate from the Adventist Community. The General Conference failed to publicize what had taken place so that they could go forward with their conservative program to use Ellen White's writings as the means of removing Dr. Ford and the evangelical minded SDA's. And that is what happened at Glacier View in 1980, shortly after the discovery of this hidden collection in the basement of the church headquarters. Neither the Adventist Community nor the scholars were informed about this new discovery of Ellen White's 1888 materials that would have shed great light on all the disputed points under discussion. The leaders kept this critical and important information hidden.

Following Glacier View, and the exile of the Gospel minded scholar Dr. Ford, the legalistic conservatives went on a rampage to purge the church of the SDA evangelicals that refused to submit to the official 1888 theology of the White Estate and the Review. The leaders also, for the first time in church history, developed a creed called the 27 Fundamentals, which they now required all to support or leave the church. Ten's of thousands of the best and brightest members left the denomination in anger and confusion because there was no room for questioning, or debate, much less for the Protestant Gospel. The conservatives had taken control of the denomination. And they did so in the name of Ellen White.

After the first wave of schism emptied the church of the most educated and evangelical minded things became more subdued and quiet. The debates about doctrine and church history were over and most everyone knew that Glacier View had been a great blunder. But there were more backlashes to come. In fact, by 1982, many of the conservatives, thanks to Walter Rea and his book "The White Lie," had been stunned to learn that the White Estate had not been honest about Ellen White's method of writing or her authority. And this damaging news sent a second wave of schism through the church as the conservatives now questioned everything that they had been taught by the White Estate. The SDA church was now in a full-blown crisis of identity as both the evangelicals and the conservatives were confused, disoriented, and disappointed with Adventist theology and history. Here was a major crisis that parallels the great Battle Creek debacle that had ruined the church in the last century.

The church leaders were understandably fearful that if something were not done, the church would once again collapse. Subsequently they adopted a plan to try and regain both the evangelicals and the conservatives and to quietly back away from Glacier View theology that had misused Ellen White as the basis for its authority and credibility. Although the leaders refused to admit that they had made any mistakes, this new policy called "pluralism" was an admission that Glacier View theology was not credible and that forcing the evangelicals out of the church was a serious mistake.

During the decade following Glacier View, the White Estate knew that they still had a serious problem. Although they had now backed away from using Ellen White as an authority to promote legalism, what were they to do about the hidden 1888 documents that were still unexplained in their vault? After all, a number of denominational employees, including an independent researcher, knew that these hidden materials were there. How much longer could this secret be kept? Something had to be done because every day that passed risked discovery. So they came up with a plan to dump these materials on the church in an obvious attempt to exonerate themselves from the fraud of Arthur White. And this is what they did.

Almost a decade after Glacier View, while the church was still dealing with the aftermath of Walter Rea, the White Estate saw the perfect opportunity to publish the hidden 1888 materials without calling attention to the long running cover up. Thus the 1888 Centennial became the perfect opportunity to clean their hands of this hidden scandal that was far larger than anything that Walter Rea, or anyone had envisioned.

So in 1987, the Review and the Pacific Press published the 1888 materials that Tom Norris had discovered in the White Estate. Here for the first time, thousands of hidden documents about 1888 were made public. But it was too late to save the church from years of misguided debate and painful schism. And besides, the White Estate was not confessing to anything, nor did they even intend to inform the Adventist Community about the meaning or the contents of this new collection of Ellen White documents that had suddenly and inexplicably been published so many years AFTER Glacier View.

The White Estate had no intention of setting the record straight and teaching the church about the true history of the 1888 debate. Thus they admitted that this new collection of 1888 materials was not meant to be a "compendium on the subject of righteousness by faith." While it did include "those sermons in which reference was made to the Minneapolis conference," it ignored many other Ellen White materials about "justification and sanctification by faith in the years following 1888."

The amount of hidden materials was so large that it required 5 large volumes. This more than 2,000 page collection was organized chronologically, as each document was identified "by date, reference, and title or addressee." There was even "a listing of persons addressed in this collection" along with their official "position held during the time of the communication and an index to document location." The dates covered, and the page numbers of the first four volumes are as follows:

Evangelicals and conservatives of the SDA church are both fundamentalists. Neither understand the true nature of divine inspiration, and so both are likely to misinterpret the words of the prophets.

The abyss is simply death.

Is there more coming?

Wow that was very interesting, I must say.

pk

sohel001

1st - -I want to make this very clear, do not copy and paste items with out giving credit to the source and website. Do not plagiarize.

2nd - - Get rid of the link in the signature. Do that today.

Yes .... it was. I too am waiting for the rest. Part 11 or 111. And a reference to be forthwith.

Dear Gentlemen and Ladies,

When did we get the idea that prophets and apostles were infallible. Remember that Scripture is not dictated, it is thought inspired with the prophets putting the thoughts on paper using their own words. There are some errors in Scripture. For instance Matthew attributes a prophecy to Jeremiah when it is from Zechariah. Samuel and Chronicles record the same event where David causes the people to be counted, and God brings judgment. One account says that Satan caused him to do the count, but the other account declares that the Lord caused him to do the count. Which is correct? Do not hold EGW to a higher standard. There are many things which Ellen White stated and used which did not come from the Holy Spirit. Many times she would use the understanding of her day to illustrate a concept. Such was the idea of coal fires being the cause for volcanism. That was the science of her day. This is no different than the Samuel and Chronicles problem; each writer worked under the understanding of his time. Did God cause David to sin? Or did Satan?

God never gave to EGW the authority to determine or dictate doctrine for the Church; it has always been the work of the Church. Many have tried to make her such to their detriment, I might add. And it has never been the right of any one member nor a church board to determine doctrine for the Church. Rather, the General Conference, and that is not the representative body in DC, it is the Church in business session during the general conference held every five years (GC) that is the final authority for doctrine for the SDA Church. It is the result of studies by the world body, then coming together at the GC every five years and voting to accept or reject. EGW is correct when she states that the GC is the highest authority, and we are to accept its vote. We should not cause schism because we disagree with the decisions made at GC. We can continue to study and use the proper channels to forward our studies; I believe the brethern are continually open to further study and light. But we are not to cause a split in the church because we disagree with the decisions made in business session of the five year general conference. Nor should politics and strategy be used to obtain a vote for a position. All needs to be done open and above board in order that God may be honored.

As far as A.G. Daniels suppressing documents, you will find that he was one of those who desired to open up everything to the Adventist people. But the majority in committee decided against it. So please do not assign evil to Daniels. Rather, I find some of the fore-stated history suspect. I would suggest there needs to be authentication of the allegations made. Otherwise, do not accuse with unsubstantiated history. I would suggest do not accuse the brethren without good evidence to do so. Hearsay is not acceptable.

I knew the people in the Ford and the Walter Rheas controversy personally. I personally confronted many of them. They were my classmates in college when I studied for the ministry. They were wrong Scripturally. And no amount of post-historical quarterbacking will make them right. At the same there were many among the church leaders who didn't do the study that should have been done. I left the ministry because I couldn't agree with all the positions taken by the Church. But I didn't leave the SDA Church. Rather, I continued to study until I could come to a position with which I was comfortable. And eventually, I will present my findings through the proper channels and allow the entire church to evaluate my findings. But I will not do anything that will cause the Church to split. There was rebellion and schism during the Ford and Rhea controversies which should never have happened, and many will find themselves outside the gates of the holy city because of their attitude. God was not honored.

The abyss to the Hebrew mind was the ocean depths below the photic zone; it was blackness and unfathomable. They did not know how deep it went; for all they knew, it was unlimited. Thus, in Genesis 1, Moses uses the idea of the abyss as a representation of the darkness and deepness of space. And darkness was over the face of the deep (tehom) and the spirit of God moved over the face of the waters (seas).

Also be careful with 2 Peter 2.4. The word here is Tartarus; it is the Greek word for the chasm where souls are cleansed by fire for a short period of time then are allowed to return to a corporeal body in order to experience another life upon the earth. It is the pagan philosopher's, Plato, concept and became the forerunner of the Catholic purgatory. It is not associated with the abyss. It is a temporary holding place; it is not the final.

Luke 8.31 is best understood according to Jewish thought where the abyss is the region below the photic zone, deep, dark, and impenetrable. Even though the writers of the New Testament wrote in Koine Greek, it does not mean they lost their Jewish concepts of reality and understanding. The abyss was a place of mystery; none knew what was in these dark depths. And lets remember that it was only recently that we have had the capacity to explore below the photic zone of the oceans and deep lakes. Up until this time, everything below the photic depth was a mystery.

And if you want to suggest that there are some people alive after Christ's coming because Isaiah 24.6 seems to indicate this is the case will also have a problem with Isaiah where he states "for the young man shall die a hundred years old", Isaiah 65.20, to suggest that death will exist in eternity. Again, we must be careful and obtain all the statements in Scripture before deriving a conclusion. You cannot use one or two texts to form a doctrine.

I would suggest that the abyss should be understood as that area which is presently unobservable to the naked eye such as the depths of the continents. As I understand scripture, the earth will go through a very cataclysmic time when the very roots of the continents will be exposed and whole mountains chains and islands will disappear. Thus, it would appear that Satan will be chained to the abyssal plains of the earth; those plains now hidden from view. That all which is alive will die at His coming. The earth will be in chaos with its roots exposed and nothing left on which to survive.

Again, let us study scripture diligently with an eye towards glorifying God and not ourselves. Let us earnestly pray over our Scriptural study, and let us march forward to truth. EGW has clearly stated that there is much more to learn and that many of our positions are not totally correct. We have much to learn. Study, Study, Study; pray, pray, pray, and ask God for wisdom. And do not use EGW as the final authority on doctrine, and understand that not all written by her was inspired by God. She used what was available to her in order to bring understanding to the truths presented to her by God. Rather, it is the principles and concepts which are inspired such as the principles of health.

Sincerely,
The Searcher

Searcher, what does your post have to do with "Books for Sale"????

Amen sister, you seem to be a deep studier. We should all be deep studiers.

Dear Friends,

I am sorry; I thought there was some theological discussion concerning the reason for the sale. I am sorry if I mistook the various responses in the wrong way. If I remember correctly there was a discussion concerning the reason for the sale with a theological response by many in regards to these issues. And I do remember a rather large email concerning some conspiracy by the church and Daniels and Froom to cover up and suppress. There was also a discussion how the conservatives are part of the conspiracy. Did I get that wrong? I am truly sorry if I misunderstood the nature of the discussion.

Sincerely,
The Searcher

Searcher, Isaiah 24:6 probably means the righteous remnant who have not fallen under the judgments of God.

Isa 24:6 Therefore has the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Which to my way of thinking corresponds with:

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment

This also corresponds to the Gehenna of the Jews (Matt. 5:22) of course Peter lived in a Hellenistic Greek atmosphere, and in writing to them employs a Greek term, but does not endorse the idea of Tartarus or Gehenna, but simply refers to th place of abode where the evil angels are restricted to until the day of judgment.

No. The 1000 years does not happen on earth, the saints are given immortality and all go to heaven for a 1000 years as the wicked are judged.

At this time Satan is bound by chains of circumstances and he and his evil angels are the only ones left on earth during the 1000 years. This is why New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to the earth for the final judgment of the wicked as they are raised in the 2nd resurrection.

Here is a brief synopsis of the 1000 years beginning with the mark of the beast:

1000 Years sequence of Events

Event #1 - The Mark of the Beast Is Given
Revelation 13:16-17 — The Antichrist Beast enforces his Mark with coercive threats.
Revelation 14:9-10 — But God warns us against taking it.
Event #2 - Our Probation Closes
Revelation 22:11-12 — Jesus accepts each one’s decision as final and says He will return quickly.
Event #3 - The Seven Last Plagues Fall
Revelation 15:1 & 8 — Seven angels pour out the wrath of God.
Revelation 16:1-17 — The Seven Last Plagues punish those who have the Mark of the Beast.
Event #4 - The Second Coming of Christ Is Spectacular
Matthew 24:30-31 — Christ returns “with power and great glory” to gather His faithful people.
Matthew 25:31 — When comes in His glory, all the holy angels accompany Him.
Revelation 1:7 — As Christ gathers His redeemed in the Rapture, “every eye shall see Him.”
Event #5 - The RIGHTEOUS DEAD Are Resurrected
1 Thessalonians 4:16 — The DEAD believers in Christ rise “first”—before the living faithful.
Revelation 20:6 — “The FIRST resurrection” is for those “blessed and holy,” who are “with Him [Christ] a thousand years.” The word first implies a second, and there ARE two resurrections, 1000 years apart.
John 5:28-29 — “The resurrection of life” is opposed to “the resurrection of damnation,” 1000 years later.
Event #6 - The RIGHTEOUS LIVING Are Caught Up
1 Thessalonians 4:17 — The living saints are then caught up “to meet the Lord in the air.”
Event #7 - The WICKED LIVING When Christ Comes Are Struck Dead
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 —Christ will take “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not.”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 — Christ will “destroy [the wicked] with the brightness of His Coming.”
Isaiah 13:9 —The Lord will lay the land desolate and destroy the sinners out of it.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
66:15-16 — “Behold, . . . the slain of the Lord shall be many.”
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.


Event #8 - On EARTH: Satan Is “Bound” with No One Left to Tempt
Revelation 20:1-3 & 7 — Satan is bound with “a great chain” and cast into “the bottomless pit . . . till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released a little while.”
Are (1) the “great chain” which binds Satan and (2) “the bottomless pit” which forms his “prison” LITERAL? The Devil is real and literal enough. Jesus Himself said: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Luke 10:18. But the angel Lucifer, who made himself into the Devil called Satan, is a supernatural being. As Paul put it: “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12.
Simple reason tells us that no actual, literal “chain” or “pit” or “prison” could secure a supernatural being. More important, sacred Scripture tells us the same thing. One day after sailing across the Sea of Galilee: “They [Jesus and His disciples] came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. And when He was come out of the ship, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with CHAINS: because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been PLUCKED ASUNDER by him, and the fetters BROKEN IN PIECES.” Mark 5:1-9.
Ask yourself, if a devil possessed man could easily break apart a chain with superhuman strength, is it likely that the prince of devils himself could be bound with one? So what kind of “chain” is it that God uses to bind Satan? It’s a chain of CIRCUMSTANCES which binds the Devil more securely than any literal chain ever forged. Note the circumstances in which Satan finds himself at this time: In the first place, all the righteous who were unwilling to listen to him anyway have been taken to heaven. And all the wicked have been struck dead. Thus the entire earth is depopulated with NO ONE LEFT for Satan to tempt! Old Testament prophets foresaw this unique situation: Jeremiah 25:33 — The slain wicked “shall not be LAMENTED or GATHERED or BURIED” for there are no survivors around to do any of these things!
Isaiah 26:21 — When the Lord returns, “the earth . . . shall no more cover her slain.”
Isaiah 24:1, 3, 22 — “The Lord makes the earth EMPTY. . . .The land shall be utterly EMPTIED.”
How very effective this chain of circumstances is! Satan is securely bound, “chained” by circumstances beyond his control. But what is “the bottomless pit”? The Greek word translated “bottomless pit” is abussos from which we get our English word abyss. Modern Bible versions like the Amplified Bible, NASB, NEB, NIV, TEV, and others translate “bottomless pit” in Revelation 20:1 as “abyss.” Abussos is exactly the same word the Greek translation of the Old Testament uses in Genesis 1:2, where it says “the earth waswithout form, and void.” The prophet Jeremiah directed divine light on this question when, centuries ago, he looked down the corridor of time with the eye of Inspiration and testified:
Jeremiah 4:23-27 — The earth is desolate, without form and void, with NO human inhabitant!
What period of history was Jeremiah seeing when he wrote, “Lo, there was NO MAN”? We might think it was at the start of Creation Week, because (1) “there was no man”before God formed Adam, the first man, and because (2) Jeremiah said “the earth . . . was without form, and void” which was true at that time.
But although those two clues fit that time period, we note that God placed a third clue in this passage which does not fit: Jeremiah says he saw “all the CITIES . . . broken down.” This vision could not possibly be of the beginning of Creation Week, for man did not build cities before he was even created!
The only other time in human history when prophecy could describe the earth as having “no man” is during the Millennium while the earth is depopulated of all living people, “empty,” as we read before.
At that time “all the cities” WILL be “broken down,” completely leveled from the devastation of the final one of the Seven Last Plagues which brings the most terrificearthquake ever and pulverizing hail.
Event #9 - In HEAVEN: The Saints Assist in the Judgment
Revelation 20:4 — The redeemed sat on thrones, “and judgment was committed to them.”
Luke 22:30 — Jesus desires “That ye may . . . sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
1 Corinthians 6:2-3 — The saints shall judge the world and angels, the angels who fell with Lucifer.
Even human legal proceedings don’t dispose of a case in a flash. The whole process has several stages:
1. First, there’s the investigation of all pertinent facts we call a TRIAL.
2. Second, there’s the rendering of a decision we call a VERDICT.
3. Next there’s often an assessment of the verdict we call a JUDICIAL REVIEW.
4. Finally there is a carrying out of the verdict we call the EXECUTION of the sentence.
The same process is seen in mankind’s Final Judgment. The first two steps take place in heaven before Jesus returns (Daniel 7:9-10), for Step One, the investigation or “trial,” must precede Step Two when Christ announces His “verdict” that each morally filthy or holy person stay that way (Revelation 22:11). And Step Four, the “execution” of the wicked’s final death sentence, will take place after the thousand years are finished.
But Step Three is where the redeemed saints, in heaven, are granted the privilege of conducting a “judicial review” of the cases of the wicked who lie dead on earth. God knows that because some people are not saved, they will be missed by the saints, yet He wants no heavy hearts in heaven. So God will allow us to ask any questions about His decision as to why some are not saved in heaven, such as:
1. “How come Aunt Martha and Grandfather! aren’t here? They were such good people.”
2. “Yes, and how about Pastor Jones and Father Brown? God made a mistake if they’re lost!”
Then an angel will lead the inquirers to heaven’s Record Books, now lying open to examination, and sadly reveal the unforgiven sins, sins not blotted out, unknown to the world, unknown even to close friends and loved ones. God is too wise to allow even a trace of a doubt to linger in anyone’s mind about His justice. Though the wicked from all ages suffered the first death common to all men, God will not destroy them by the second death in the Lake of Fire until this review of His judgment is completed. In other words, God makes sure that Event #14 (wicked are destroyed by fire) will not take place until Event #9 has been thoroughly completed.
C. — Events AFTER the
1000 Year Millennium
Event #10 - The Wicked Are Resurrected, So Satan Is Loosed
Revelation 20:3, 5a, & 7 — Those “blessed and holy” had part in the first resurrection. “But the rest of the dead [the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. . . . And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison” for once again he has people to tempt!
Event #11 - The Holy City Descends from God Out of Heaven
Revelation 21:2 & 10 — The New Jerusalem, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband, descends.
Event #12 - The Wicked Surround God’s Holy City
Revelation 20:7-9 — With the wicked alive again, Satan is loosed out of his prison and goes out to deceive them, to gather them to battle against the beloved city.
Event #13 - The Wicked Are Judged Before God’s “Great White Throne”
Revelation 20:11-13 — Before the great white throne, “the books were opened” to judge the lost.
Romans 14:10-12 — Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess and give account to God.
Event #14 - The Wicked Are Destroyed by Fire
Revelation 20:9, 14-15 — When the wicked surround the holy city to attack it, FIRE comes down from God out of heaven and DEVOURS them. This lake of fire is the SECOND death.
Revelation 21:8 — The wicked of every description have their part in this lake of fire.
Event #15 - The Earth Is CLEANSED by Fire and Made New
2 Peter 3:10-13 — “The elements shall MELT with fervent heat. . . . All these things shall be DISSOLVED.”
Revelation 21:1 & 5 — But “He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”
Psalms 37:11 & Matthew 5:5 —The blessed redeemed “shall inherit the earth,” the earth made new.
Isaiah 65:17, 21-25 — The redeemed will build houses, plant vineyards, and enjoy the New Earth.
Isaiah 66:22-23 — On the glorious New Earth, we will come to worship God from one Sabbath to another.

Hello again..... Brothers and Sisters

Most of the SDA books have sold and now the Lord is leading me once again down another path!

Im am making my entire Christian book library available for sale or for donation when necessary.

Heres the link to them, browse around and may the Lord bless and keep you!

John

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsbookcellar/

I liked your number 4 point here Woody.

Looking for 3 vol. leather bound EGW Book collection. Has 55 books.

Had a Bible with EGW comments. Bible matched 3 volumes.

Thanks.

dana