I wonder, with child labor laws being what they are, if we would now be able to follow Raymond Moore's prescription for half-day work/study at the elementary level.

One of the causes of schools declining, along with Pathfinders and Sabbath Schools, is smaller families. Another is the graying of the church (upward creep of average age of SDA members in the USA).

On a slightly different topic, SDA education expense and the resulting financial stress on families makes it so that fewer members are available to volunteer for church activities, to help their fellow members, or to reach out to the community in service. More kids are latchkey kids because both parents have to work in order to pay for their education.

Which is the better choice: SDA education, with money-strapped parents unable to be involved in the church and therefore can't provide a model for their children, or even have much time for their children -- or public education, with Dad and Mom having the time to parent as they desire? Or does the decision ever come to just that consideration?

LD

HEY LYNNDEL

these are interesting points about the 1/2 day school
1/2 day work and other about the age of the church creeping
upward

dgrimm60

HEY LYNNDEL

I have heard the point of S.D.A. education being
to expensive but then I have also heard that our
S.D.A. church schools are equal to or even less
that other private or church schools


but I do know that cost is a major factory with S.D.A.
parents thinking about putting their child/children in our
church schools


dgrimm60

Let me address a couple of things here.

First) the idea that Adventist education is too expensive and many families cannot afford it. Most families can afford it. Only about 20% of families are in the income group that would keep them from being able to send their children to Adventist schools. The smaller family size in the US makes it that much more affordable. A bigger multiple-child discount needs to be offered to large families and subsidized by the local churches supporting the school.

The reason many families "can't afford it" is because they do not have their financial house in order. More than that, they don't even know how to get their financial house in order. Our churches need to serve as financial consultants for their members. This is one of the roles of the stewardship director. Training is available from both Dave Ramsey and Crown Financial Ministries. They both have great programs. Stewardship directors should be holding classes for their church members of all ages. This will not only result in members being able to afford church school but will also increase the amount of money being given to tithes and offerings.

Second) the issue of public school with mom at home or church school with mom working is an important issue. More and more Adventists are going to home schooling. For those mothers that are capable, that is a better option than public school. However the church can still serve a role - and should. Adventist education doesn't have to be formal education with a church school. Adventist education can also be an after-school program. If the kids are in public school or home school, an after-school program can be of great benefit and be run at substantially less money that what a church school costs to run. There are all kinds of after-school programs available for churches to use and this is one of the most effective ways to reach out to the community. the church can charge for the service and subsidize it for poor children.

There are mixed theories on after-school programs. One is that after-school should be a time when children can relax--as their minds have been taxed enough for the day. Another is that this should be a time of exercise--with vigorous activity so that children can spend some of the pent up energies they've stored all day. Then, there are those that believe this is the ideal time for study and getting homework done--as the child's brain is already in the learning mode. Yet, others feel that after-school is a time for work or chores. Adults are full of theories on how this time should be spent. If they would just listen to the children, the children themselves will share how it can best be used.

I, myself, ran an after-school program for two years at our Adventist elementary school. I found it to be a time when kids needed ALL of the above. It varied for each child, and sometimes varied from day-to-day. The one thing that each of the children wanted more than anything else, however, was to go home and spend time with their parents. Sadly, many parents took advantage of the inexpensive "baby-sitting" and used the time to unwind and relax for themselves--away from their children.

Parents are missing the mark when they do not make their children a top priority in their lives.

We do know that the two outreach programs that most effectually result in church growth are after-school and substance-abuse programs. We also know the Adventist church is lagging behind other denominations in these programs.

Many homes have both parents working during the time the after-school programs are taking place. So it is a great opportunity for the church to meet a need in the community. This is especially true for single-parent homes.

As a current educator in an SDA K-12 school, I think there are many reasons for our school's decline, and would venture to say that this applies to many, if not most, other SDA schools too.

1) Changing demographic - though many in our churches in our area like to point to specific people or policies for our gradual decline, the bottom line is that other public schools in our area are suffering due to lack of young families coming in and many moving out. Our school has suffered for this.

2) Cost compared to public school - As was mentioned, many just can't afford it even though we try hard to accommodate everyone and their situation

3) In-church policing and infighting. We have 7 consitutent churches in our area and people in each one seem to think the other churches are trying to 'sheep steal' our youth. The in-fighting between the liberal and conservative churches bleeds into the school. We have a major parcel of land in the back of our school that has been sitting doing nothing for 20 years because nobody wants to give it up or come to a decision. We could have sold it for $2 million dollars but it passed us by because of the stranglehold some people have over our policies.

4) Disfunctional school board - We have 21 (yes, you heard that right- 21!!!) school board members representing the and churches in the area. It is unbelievable how things get done, nevermind the personal agendas some bring to the table. This needs to be severely trimmed down.

5) Can't compete - Face it folks. Small SDA schools cannot provide some of the electives and cool classes that many of our kids want or need. The public schools can offer these things and we cannot. We have lost a few kids due to this and many more that don't come because we can't offer the perks that public schools can. We don't have special ed or ESL training or can afford the one on one time of tutoring or discipline management either.

6) Meddling conservative consituents. Since the 12 years I've been at our school, we've had to deal with certain church members/parents who feel that the school is going down hill because we don't follow 'the little red books' (which is not true). These people have (and still are) trying to dictate to the teachers what and how they should and shouldn't be teaching, petitioning to get rid of teachers they don't like due to some ridiculous notion, trying to bully the school board to follow their own agenda including creating our school schedule and trying to buy policies in our school (a major contributor to our chaplaincy program said he is withdrawing all our funding for it this upcoming year unless we make all the girls wear dresses and eliminate all our jewelry including teachers wearing wedding rings!).

Gail mentioned Fountainview. Fountainview has deep pockets and has established itself as the type of school it is. You can't take a school in such an urban environment with so much competition and expect to make it like that and draw people to it. It doesn't work that way. I don't agree with much of what Fountainview is about but all the more power to them. I just hate it when the conservatives feel that we will be a flourishing school that God can be proud of and bless if we become more like Fountainview. Rubbish

Yes those dastardly old conservatives...

Isn't that a hoot, you'd think that it would be the liberals that were the problem and not those conservative's that are held up as the golden party. :):):)

pk

I was also a follower of the Moores when I homeschooled. When our pastor, who did not believe in homeschooling, threatened to report us to Social Services for being bad parents, I called Dr. Moore. He talked to our pastor, who then backed off and left us alone.

As I read the chapter of the book at the beginning of this thread, My personal choice of why Adventist schools are too expensive is number 4. After I became burned out, our children attended the local church school for a short time. The teacher was great, but the influences of the other kids were not. One of our sons became the victim of what Dr. Moore refers to as "the wolf pack," which included ALL the other kids at the school, including his own siblings, and the stress caused him to behave as if he had an extreme case of ADHD, not just at school, but all the time. Both of our sons very quickly became quite vulgar, because of the influence of the other boys there. Our kids were rejects because they didn't watch TV, and because we were vegetarian. All of my careful efforts to nurture their spirituality were being undone in short order. And we should be willing to pay big bucks for this? Think again!

The nearby day academy where most of our church's high schoolers attended, had adopted a very exclusive attitude. The focus was more on high academics, and they didn't want anyone there who would bring down their stats. My best friend's daughter went there, and it was there, at school, that she became a drug addict, wholly under the influence of, and supplied by, fellow students. Out of her entire graduating class, there were only 2 students who remained in the church after graduation. And we should pay even bigger bucks for that? No thank you.